Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameMaud de St Valerie 
[54, Her husband's article], [60, Abergavenny art, Vol I, p. 22], [100, Doug Thomsom, "Parentage of Matilda de Braose", 12.10.03]
[54, Her husband's article], [60, Abergavenny art, Vol I, p. 22], [100, Doug Thomsom, "Parentage of Matilda de Braose", 12.10.03]General"Lady of La Haie" - CP.
FatherBernard de St Valerie (-1191)
Spouses
1William (III) de Braose Lord of Abergavenny [54, His own article], [60, Abergavenny art, Vol I, p. 22], [121, Barnstaple, Devon barony (2nd class), p. 105], [121, Bramber, Sussex barony (2nd class), p. 108], [119, His father, Willelm II de Braose, pp. 346-7]
[54, His own article], [60, Abergavenny art, Vol I, p. 22], [121, Barnstaple, Devon barony (2nd class), p. 105], [121, Bramber, Sussex barony (2nd class), p. 108], [119, His father, Willelm II de Braose, pp. 346-7]FatherWilliam (II) de Braose Lord of Abergavenny (-ca1192)
MotherBertha of Hereford (ca1130-)
ChildrenMaud (or Susan) de
William de (-1210)
Giles de (-1215)
Eleanor de (->1241)
Reynold de (-ca1227)
Margaret de (->1255)
Laurette de (-ca1266)
Notes for Maud de St Valerie
She is said to be the dau. of Bernard de St Valerie (d. 1191) but there is no evidence that I have found; cf his article in Keats-Rohan's DD, p. 698.
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TFPL, 12 Oct 2003
Doug Thomson has foujnd a super extract from a 13th century document which clearly says that she was the daughter of Bernard. Proof positive!
Doug wrote:
Subject: Parentage of Matilda de Braose (St Valery) - "new" evidence.
From: Doug Thompson <doug.thompson@virgin.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:50:11 +0100
Back in August Tim Powys-Lybbe asked:
> I can't find any reference to connect Maud to No 46.(Bernard de St. Valery.)
> Can you assist?
To which John Ravilious replied:
> Concerning the identification of Maud de St. Valery as daughter
> of Bernard, this is based somewhat on onomastic evidence (cf. St.
> Valery names - Reginald, Maud, Lauretta/Loretta introduced into de
> Braose line with Maud's children) and largely on the identification of
> Tetbury, co. Gloucs. - a holding of Bernard de St. Valery - as the
> maritagium of Maud.
And some sources give Reginald de St Valery as Maud's father.
However I recently came across a "new" piece of evidence. (About 750 years
old actually!)
In the 13th century Histoire des Ducs de Normandie et des Rois d'Angleterre,
there is a piece about Maud de St Valery. It is translated on Dr Helen
Nicholson's website - see
http://freespace.virgin.net/nigel.nicholson/wom5.htm#extract_e
In this extract the author clearly states "she was daughter of Bernard de
St-Valéry".
The Histoire is thought to have been written in the mid 13th century and
appears to be by someone who was familiar with the people he wrote about.
I believe this removes any further doubt about the father of Maud.
I welcome any comments.
Doug Thompson
--------------
History and Genealogy of the Braose Family
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm ;(Genealogy)
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/stage.htm ;(History)
_________________________________________________________
Helen Nicholaon wrote:
Medieval Women: Warfare and Military Activity
_
This text copyright ©1999 Dr Helen Nicholson
All translations are by Helen Nicholson unless otherwise stated.
_ _
The second extract from the Histoire describes Matilda de St-Valéry, wife of William de Braose, marcher lords on the English-Welsh border in the late twelfth and early thirteenth century.
This William de Braose had a very valiant lady as wife, who was born in the land of the king of France; she was daughter of Bernard de St-Valéry, the good knight, and she was called Matilda. She was a beautiful woman, very wise and doughty and very vigorous. People said nothing about her husband compared to what they said about her. She kept up all their war against the Welsh, and conquered much from them. She performed many good services for King John, which was a waste of her resources, and made him many fine presents. Once she presented the queen [Isabel ofAngoulême] with three hundred cows and a bull, which were all white, except for their ears,which were red. This lady boasted once to Baldwin count of Aumale her nephew that she had 12,000 milk cows; and she boasted that she had so many cheeses that if a hundred of the most vigorous men in England were besieged in a castle, they could defend themselves with her cheeses for a month. Provided they never got tired, they would always find cheeses ready to be hurled at their besiegers.
_ Histoire des Ducs de Normandie et des Rois d'Angleterre , ed. Francisque Michel (Paris, 1840). Matilda came to a sticky end for defying King John; her husband escaped, but she and her eldest son were imprisoned in Windsor Castle and starved to death. For the religious house which her daughter Margaret founded in memory of her, see my article 'Margaret de Lacy and the Hospital of St John', Journal of Ecclesiastical History , Oct. 1999.
_______________________
__________________________
TFPL, 12 Oct 2003
Doug Thomson has foujnd a super extract from a 13th century document which clearly says that she was the daughter of Bernard. Proof positive!
Doug wrote:
Subject: Parentage of Matilda de Braose (St Valery) - "new" evidence.
From: Doug Thompson <doug.thompson@virgin.net>
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:50:11 +0100
Back in August Tim Powys-Lybbe asked:
> I can't find any reference to connect Maud to No 46.(Bernard de St. Valery.)
> Can you assist?
To which John Ravilious replied:
> Concerning the identification of Maud de St. Valery as daughter
> of Bernard, this is based somewhat on onomastic evidence (cf. St.
> Valery names - Reginald, Maud, Lauretta/Loretta introduced into de
> Braose line with Maud's children) and largely on the identification of
> Tetbury, co. Gloucs. - a holding of Bernard de St. Valery - as the
> maritagium of Maud.
And some sources give Reginald de St Valery as Maud's father.
However I recently came across a "new" piece of evidence. (About 750 years
old actually!)
In the 13th century Histoire des Ducs de Normandie et des Rois d'Angleterre,
there is a piece about Maud de St Valery. It is translated on Dr Helen
Nicholson's website - see
http://freespace.virgin.net/nigel.nicholson/wom5.htm#extract_e
In this extract the author clearly states "she was daughter of Bernard de
St-Valéry".
The Histoire is thought to have been written in the mid 13th century and
appears to be by someone who was familiar with the people he wrote about.
I believe this removes any further doubt about the father of Maud.
I welcome any comments.
Doug Thompson
--------------
History and Genealogy of the Braose Family
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/index1.htm ;(Genealogy)
http://freespace.virgin.net/doug.thompson/BraoseWeb/stage.htm ;(History)
_________________________________________________________
Helen Nicholaon wrote:
Medieval Women: Warfare and Military Activity
_
This text copyright ©1999 Dr Helen Nicholson
All translations are by Helen Nicholson unless otherwise stated.
_ _
The second extract from the Histoire describes Matilda de St-Valéry, wife of William de Braose, marcher lords on the English-Welsh border in the late twelfth and early thirteenth century.
This William de Braose had a very valiant lady as wife, who was born in the land of the king of France; she was daughter of Bernard de St-Valéry, the good knight, and she was called Matilda. She was a beautiful woman, very wise and doughty and very vigorous. People said nothing about her husband compared to what they said about her. She kept up all their war against the Welsh, and conquered much from them. She performed many good services for King John, which was a waste of her resources, and made him many fine presents. Once she presented the queen [Isabel ofAngoulême] with three hundred cows and a bull, which were all white, except for their ears,which were red. This lady boasted once to Baldwin count of Aumale her nephew that she had 12,000 milk cows; and she boasted that she had so many cheeses that if a hundred of the most vigorous men in England were besieged in a castle, they could defend themselves with her cheeses for a month. Provided they never got tired, they would always find cheeses ready to be hurled at their besiegers.
_ Histoire des Ducs de Normandie et des Rois d'Angleterre , ed. Francisque Michel (Paris, 1840). Matilda came to a sticky end for defying King John; her husband escaped, but she and her eldest son were imprisoned in Windsor Castle and starved to death. For the religious house which her daughter Margaret founded in memory of her, see my article 'Margaret de Lacy and the Hospital of St John', Journal of Ecclesiastical History , Oct. 1999.
_______________________