Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameAlice Comyn Countess of Buchan 
[76, p.204], [60, Audley article, Vol I, p. 340], [60, Buchan article, Vol II, pp. 375-6], [60, Beaumont art, Vol II, p. 58 seq], [60, FitzWarin article, Vol V, p. 500], [56, Suffolk of 1561, pub Harleian 1881, Beaumont, p. 185]
[76, p.204], [60, Audley article, Vol I, p. 340], [60, Buchan article, Vol II, pp. 375-6], [60, Beaumont art, Vol II, p. 58 seq], [60, FitzWarin article, Vol V, p. 500], [56, Suffolk of 1561, pub Harleian 1881, Beaumont, p. 185]Deathbef 10 Aug 1349
General1st dau, co-heir. Suo jure, Countess of Buchan (S).
FatherSir Alexander Comyn
MotherJoan Latimer
Spouses
Marriagebef 14 Jul 1310 [60, Buchan article, Vol II, pp. 375-6]
Notes for Alice Comyn Countess of Buchan
Here's a good account of her family from Brad Verity:
From: batruth@hotmail.com ("brad verity")
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:53:32 +0000 (UTC)
>Dear Brad, Louise, Tim, et al.,
>
> Following is what I show for the 10 children of Henry de Beaumont
> and Alice Comyn.
John,
Thank you for the detailed information on the children - it's very helpful.
> Any supportive/contrary information and documentation is welcome.
Comments interspersed.
>1 Henry de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>Death: 10 Mar 1339[1]
He actually died in March 1340, unless I'm all off on my regnal year
calculations.
>Spouse: Alice Comyn, co-heiress of the Earldom of Buchan
>Death: 3 Jul 1349[5]
>Father: Sir Alexander Comyn, lord of Dingwall (-ca1308)
>Mother: Joan le Latimer
>Marr: bef 14 Mar 1310[1]
>
>Children: John (ca1317-<1342)
> Catherine
> Isabel
> Agnes
> Elizabeth (-1400)
> Alice
> Joan
> Richard
> Thomas
> Beatrice
My guess is that Catherine and Isabel were older than John, and that Agnes
and Elizabeth were the youngest daughters, and probably youngest children.
>
>1.1 John Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>Birth: ca 1317[6],[7]
He was said to have been age 22 last Christmas Day in one of his father's
1340 IPMs. Another one said he was 22 on the last St. Andrew day, but the
jurors may have confused his birthdate with that of his younger brother
Thomas (see below).
>Death: bef 25 May 1342[8]
Douglas Richardson found evidence that John was killed at a tournament in
April 1342.
>Spouse: Eleanor of Lancaster
>Death: 11 Jan 1372[6]
>Father: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
>Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
>Marr: bef Jun 1337[6]
Per Duke Henry of Lancaster's modern biographer, Kenneth Fowler, in the book
_The King's Lieutenant_ (1969), p. 26, Eleanor was married to John de
Beaumont between 1 September and 6 November 1330. Fowler combed through
Duchy of Lancaster Miscellanea documents at the PRO, which turned out to be
household accounts of Henry, Earl of Lancaster, from 1328-1330 or so, and
was able to determine the marriage date that way. Beaumont would only be
just turning 13 at his marriage, so comsummation was likely put off for 2 or
3 years, perhaps longer, depending on Eleanor's age.
It's not known exactly how old Eleanor was at the time of her marriage, but
she was doubtless the fifth of Earl Henry's six daughters, only Mary de
Lancaster (who was married on 4 September 1334 at Tutbury Castle to Henry de
Percy) being younger.
>Children: Henry, Lord Beaumont (<1340-1369)
Henry was born in Ghent, Flanders, which caused all kinds of confusion for
inheritance. King Edward III, who had requested that Lady Eleanor,
preparing to return to England to give birth, stay in attendance on Queen
Philippa, wrote a letter of assurance in December 1340 that the baby -
probably born late 1339 (he was found to be age 2-and-a-half in one of his
father's 1342 IPMs) was indeed John and Eleanor's and able to inherit, since
there was a law in effect that an heir to an estate had to be born in
England. This worked for the 1342 IPMs following the death of John de
Beaumont, but completely failed for the 1349 IPMs following the death of
Alice, Countess of Buchan (see below). Edward III then had the inheritance
law adjusted in 1350-51 to include heirs born overseas.
>
>1.2 Catherine Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. CP (Athol, Earls of)[2]
> Richardson p. 83[9]
>
>Spouse: David of Strathbogie, titular Earl of Athol
>Birth: 1 Feb 1308, Newcastle on Tyne[2]
>Death: 30 Nov 1335, Battle of Kilblane[10]
>Father: David of Strathbogie (-1326)
>Mother: Joan Comyn (-<1326)
>
>Children: David, titular Earl of Athol (1332-1369)
From the birth of her son in 1332, Catherine de Beaumont would seem to have
been the firstborn child of Henry and Alice.
>
>1.3 Isabel de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Faris[7]
> Richardson p. 83[9]
Isabel's birthdate interests me as much as her ever-elusive deathdate
(though we can now say she was definitely dead by June 1361, when a
partition of lands held in dower or otherwise for life of the Lancaster
inheritance shows that there were no lands held in dower). Her marriage in
1330, and travels with her husband and her sister-in-law Eleanor that year,
indicate a teenager at least - so perhaps a birthdate of about 1315 is not
too far off the mark.
If born about 1315, it's interesting that her elder daughter was not born
until early 1340, but there may have been the birth of a son (or two) who
died in infancy beforehand (see below).
>Spouse: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster
>Birth: ca 1299, Grosmont Castle[5]
Per Fowler, Henry was born about 1310 at Grosmont Castle. The dates of his
marriage and entrance into public life bear this out, rather than a date ten
years previous.
Chronologically, his sister Blanche (married in 1316) was definitely older
than him, and Isabella the Prioress of Amesbury likely was as well. Maude
de Lancaster, married by 16 November 1327 (Fowler) and Joan de Lancaster,
married by 4 June 1328 (Fowler), were likely close to him in age.
>Death: 24 Mar 1360, Leicester[5]
In modern style, this was 24 March 1361.
>Father: Henry of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
>Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
>Marr: ca 1334[7]
Per Fowler, Henry of Lancaster and Isabella de Beaumont were married by June
1331, and an entry in Cal. Papal Registers in 1331, confirms they were
husband and wife.
>Children: Maud (1335-1362), m. Ralph de Stafford
Maud was born in early 1340.
> Blanche (1345-1368), m. John 'of Gaunt'
Blanche was born in 1342.
There were, in addition to the two heiresses, likely two sons who died
young, one born at the Lancaster manor of Kempsford in Gloucestershire,
which is why that manor was later donated by Duke Henry to the church of
Newarke College (Fowler). There were two boys buried near to the tomb of
Henry, Earl of Lancaster (d. 1345) in the church of Newarke College,
according to John Leland who saw the church before it was torn down in
1548-50.
>
>1.4 Agnes de Beaumont[11]
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Wagner[11]
> Richardson p. 83[9]
>
>Spouse: Thomas de Lucy, Lord Lucy
>Death: 5 Dec 1365[2]
>Father: Anthony de Lucy (<1283-<1343)
>Mother: Elizabeth
>Marr: 1343[11]
Agnes's late marriage date, after the death of her father, makes it likely
she was one of the youngest daughters.
>Children: Maud (-1398), m. 1stly Gilbert d'Umfraville, earl of Angus
> 2ndly Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland
>
>
>1.5 Elizabeth de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>Death: 27 Oct 1400, d.s.p.[2]
>
>Spouse: Nicholas de Audley, Lord Audley
>Birth: ca 1328[2]
>Death: 22 Jul 1391, d.s.p.[2]
>Father: Sir James de Audley (1312-1386)
>Mother: Joan de Mortimer
With no estimated date of marriage or child for Elizabeth, it's somewhat
difficult to place her in the birth order, but her death in 1400, sixty
years after her father, would indicate she was one of - if not the -
youngest of the children.
>1.6 Alice de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Does Richardson give a source for this daughter?
>1.7 Joan de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. D. Richardson[5]
>
>Spouse: Fulk FitzWarin, Lord FitzWarin
>Death: 25 Jul 1349[12]
>Father: Fulk FitzWarin (<1285-<1336)
>Mother: Alianore de Beauchamp
>
>Children: Fulk (1340-1373), 4th Lord FitzWarin
Joan's son Fulk's birth in 1340 would indicate she was older than her
sisters Agnes and Elizabeth.
>1.8 Richard de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
If Richard was supposed to have been the second son, born between John and
Thomas, he was dead without issue before his mother's 1349 death.
>
>1.9 Thomas de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Thomas was assigned the manor of Bolton Percy, Yorkshire, in his father's
1340 IPM. Due to young Henry de Beaumont being born overseas in Ghent,
Thomas was found to be the next heir of his brother John in his mother
Countess Alice's IPMs. He was found in them to be aged 24 and more, with
one specifically saying he was 24 and more on St. Andrew's day last.
>
>1.10 Beatrice de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Again, it would be interesting to know what Douglas's source is for this
daughter.
Thanks again, John, for the thorough list of children and your sources.
Cheers, -----Brad
From: batruth@hotmail.com ("brad verity")
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Re: Children of Henry de Beaumont, Earl of Buchan
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:53:32 +0000 (UTC)
>Dear Brad, Louise, Tim, et al.,
>
> Following is what I show for the 10 children of Henry de Beaumont
> and Alice Comyn.
John,
Thank you for the detailed information on the children - it's very helpful.
> Any supportive/contrary information and documentation is welcome.
Comments interspersed.
>1 Henry de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>Death: 10 Mar 1339[1]
He actually died in March 1340, unless I'm all off on my regnal year
calculations.
>Spouse: Alice Comyn, co-heiress of the Earldom of Buchan
>Death: 3 Jul 1349[5]
>Father: Sir Alexander Comyn, lord of Dingwall (-ca1308)
>Mother: Joan le Latimer
>Marr: bef 14 Mar 1310[1]
>
>Children: John (ca1317-<1342)
> Catherine
> Isabel
> Agnes
> Elizabeth (-1400)
> Alice
> Joan
> Richard
> Thomas
> Beatrice
My guess is that Catherine and Isabel were older than John, and that Agnes
and Elizabeth were the youngest daughters, and probably youngest children.
>
>1.1 John Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>Birth: ca 1317[6],[7]
He was said to have been age 22 last Christmas Day in one of his father's
1340 IPMs. Another one said he was 22 on the last St. Andrew day, but the
jurors may have confused his birthdate with that of his younger brother
Thomas (see below).
>Death: bef 25 May 1342[8]
Douglas Richardson found evidence that John was killed at a tournament in
April 1342.
>Spouse: Eleanor of Lancaster
>Death: 11 Jan 1372[6]
>Father: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
>Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
>Marr: bef Jun 1337[6]
Per Duke Henry of Lancaster's modern biographer, Kenneth Fowler, in the book
_The King's Lieutenant_ (1969), p. 26, Eleanor was married to John de
Beaumont between 1 September and 6 November 1330. Fowler combed through
Duchy of Lancaster Miscellanea documents at the PRO, which turned out to be
household accounts of Henry, Earl of Lancaster, from 1328-1330 or so, and
was able to determine the marriage date that way. Beaumont would only be
just turning 13 at his marriage, so comsummation was likely put off for 2 or
3 years, perhaps longer, depending on Eleanor's age.
It's not known exactly how old Eleanor was at the time of her marriage, but
she was doubtless the fifth of Earl Henry's six daughters, only Mary de
Lancaster (who was married on 4 September 1334 at Tutbury Castle to Henry de
Percy) being younger.
>Children: Henry, Lord Beaumont (<1340-1369)
Henry was born in Ghent, Flanders, which caused all kinds of confusion for
inheritance. King Edward III, who had requested that Lady Eleanor,
preparing to return to England to give birth, stay in attendance on Queen
Philippa, wrote a letter of assurance in December 1340 that the baby -
probably born late 1339 (he was found to be age 2-and-a-half in one of his
father's 1342 IPMs) was indeed John and Eleanor's and able to inherit, since
there was a law in effect that an heir to an estate had to be born in
England. This worked for the 1342 IPMs following the death of John de
Beaumont, but completely failed for the 1349 IPMs following the death of
Alice, Countess of Buchan (see below). Edward III then had the inheritance
law adjusted in 1350-51 to include heirs born overseas.
>
>1.2 Catherine Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. CP (Athol, Earls of)[2]
> Richardson p. 83[9]
>
>Spouse: David of Strathbogie, titular Earl of Athol
>Birth: 1 Feb 1308, Newcastle on Tyne[2]
>Death: 30 Nov 1335, Battle of Kilblane[10]
>Father: David of Strathbogie (-1326)
>Mother: Joan Comyn (-<1326)
>
>Children: David, titular Earl of Athol (1332-1369)
From the birth of her son in 1332, Catherine de Beaumont would seem to have
been the firstborn child of Henry and Alice.
>
>1.3 Isabel de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Faris[7]
> Richardson p. 83[9]
Isabel's birthdate interests me as much as her ever-elusive deathdate
(though we can now say she was definitely dead by June 1361, when a
partition of lands held in dower or otherwise for life of the Lancaster
inheritance shows that there were no lands held in dower). Her marriage in
1330, and travels with her husband and her sister-in-law Eleanor that year,
indicate a teenager at least - so perhaps a birthdate of about 1315 is not
too far off the mark.
If born about 1315, it's interesting that her elder daughter was not born
until early 1340, but there may have been the birth of a son (or two) who
died in infancy beforehand (see below).
>Spouse: Henry of Lancaster, Earl of Lancaster
>Birth: ca 1299, Grosmont Castle[5]
Per Fowler, Henry was born about 1310 at Grosmont Castle. The dates of his
marriage and entrance into public life bear this out, rather than a date ten
years previous.
Chronologically, his sister Blanche (married in 1316) was definitely older
than him, and Isabella the Prioress of Amesbury likely was as well. Maude
de Lancaster, married by 16 November 1327 (Fowler) and Joan de Lancaster,
married by 4 June 1328 (Fowler), were likely close to him in age.
>Death: 24 Mar 1360, Leicester[5]
In modern style, this was 24 March 1361.
>Father: Henry of Lancaster (~1281-1345)
>Mother: Maud de Chaworth (ca1282-<1322)
>Marr: ca 1334[7]
Per Fowler, Henry of Lancaster and Isabella de Beaumont were married by June
1331, and an entry in Cal. Papal Registers in 1331, confirms they were
husband and wife.
>Children: Maud (1335-1362), m. Ralph de Stafford
Maud was born in early 1340.
> Blanche (1345-1368), m. John 'of Gaunt'
Blanche was born in 1342.
There were, in addition to the two heiresses, likely two sons who died
young, one born at the Lancaster manor of Kempsford in Gloucestershire,
which is why that manor was later donated by Duke Henry to the church of
Newarke College (Fowler). There were two boys buried near to the tomb of
Henry, Earl of Lancaster (d. 1345) in the church of Newarke College,
according to John Leland who saw the church before it was torn down in
1548-50.
>
>1.4 Agnes de Beaumont[11]
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Wagner[11]
> Richardson p. 83[9]
>
>Spouse: Thomas de Lucy, Lord Lucy
>Death: 5 Dec 1365[2]
>Father: Anthony de Lucy (<1283-<1343)
>Mother: Elizabeth
>Marr: 1343[11]
Agnes's late marriage date, after the death of her father, makes it likely
she was one of the youngest daughters.
>Children: Maud (-1398), m. 1stly Gilbert d'Umfraville, earl of Angus
> 2ndly Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland
>
>
>1.5 Elizabeth de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>Death: 27 Oct 1400, d.s.p.[2]
>
>Spouse: Nicholas de Audley, Lord Audley
>Birth: ca 1328[2]
>Death: 22 Jul 1391, d.s.p.[2]
>Father: Sir James de Audley (1312-1386)
>Mother: Joan de Mortimer
With no estimated date of marriage or child for Elizabeth, it's somewhat
difficult to place her in the birth order, but her death in 1400, sixty
years after her father, would indicate she was one of - if not the -
youngest of the children.
>1.6 Alice de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Does Richardson give a source for this daughter?
>1.7 Joan de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. D. Richardson[5]
>
>Spouse: Fulk FitzWarin, Lord FitzWarin
>Death: 25 Jul 1349[12]
>Father: Fulk FitzWarin (<1285-<1336)
>Mother: Alianore de Beauchamp
>
>Children: Fulk (1340-1373), 4th Lord FitzWarin
Joan's son Fulk's birth in 1340 would indicate she was older than her
sisters Agnes and Elizabeth.
>1.8 Richard de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
If Richard was supposed to have been the second son, born between John and
Thomas, he was dead without issue before his mother's 1349 death.
>
>1.9 Thomas de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Thomas was assigned the manor of Bolton Percy, Yorkshire, in his father's
1340 IPM. Due to young Henry de Beaumont being born overseas in Ghent,
Thomas was found to be the next heir of his brother John in his mother
Countess Alice's IPMs. He was found in them to be aged 24 and more, with
one specifically saying he was 24 and more on St. Andrew's day last.
>
>1.10 Beatrice de Beaumont
>----------------------------------------
>
>cf. Richardson p. 83[9]
Again, it would be interesting to know what Douglas's source is for this
daughter.
Thanks again, John, for the thorough list of children and your sources.
Cheers, -----Brad