Someone had a daughter Alice Elizabth Juliana Powys, birth reg at Thrapstone, Northants; can’t find who the parents were.

2005: No baptism found.

Feb 2022, TFPL: Thanks to Ancestry, we have an image of his baptism register:

<                      Westminster  >  St MaryLeBone  >  1793-1810            >

“                                    Baptisms 1802
“March
“. . . .
“When baptised:   16th March         [ day of date sliced off page scan on one image ]
“Child’s Name:    Thos: Atherton Powys
“Parents Names:   of the Rt Honble the Lord Lilford & Maria Lady Lilford
“When born:       2 Dec 1801

NOTE: Two versions of the baptisms register have been found on Ancestry, possibly one is the original and the other the Bishop’s Transcript; Ancestry does not identify this.  Anyhow the second to be found is the best as it clearly states that he was baptised on the 16th March.
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No found, so far, in 1841 census.  Tried all version of Powys and Lilford for the surnames.

In 1841 the parents and the elder three children were away from home, leaving the next four:

First name(s)  Last name  Sex  Age  Birth year  Birth place
Georgiana Caroline     Powys       F   5  1836  -
Leopold William Henry  Powys       M   3  1838  -
Edward Victor Robert   Powys       M   2  1839  -
Charles James Fox      Powys       M   1  1840  -
Elizabeth              Borrowman   F  40  1801  Scotland
Catherine              Allars      F  50  1791  -
Anne                   Snow        F  30  1811  -
Frances                Crowley     F  35  1806  -
Emma                   Miles       F  20  1821  -
Ruth                   Eaton       F  20  1821  Northamptonshire, England
Mary                   Hodgkinson  F  25  1816  -
Elizabeth              Sawford     F  15  1826  Northamptonshire, England
Mary                   Borrowman   F  15  1826  Scotland
Sarah                  Holland     F  15  1826  Northamptonshire, England
Giles                  Hurst       M  40  1801  -
Joseph                 Nevitt      M  40  1801  -

Ref:
Archive reference  HO107
Piece number       803
Book number        18
Folio number       5
Page number        5
Combined:          1841 ref: HO107, piece 803, book 10, folio 5, p. 5
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In 1851, he had a modestly large household with seven of their children present at No 10 Grosvenor Place, Westminster, London:

First name(s)  Last name  Role  Marital status  Sex  Age  Birth year  Occupation  Birth place
-                Lilford    Head  M  M  49  1802  Peer             London, Middlesex
-                Lilford    Wife  M  F  40  1811  -                London, Middlesex
Adelaide Mary    Powys      Daur  U  F  19  1832  -                Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Edith G          Powys      Daur  -  F  16  1835  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Georgiana C      Powys      Daur  -  F  15  1836  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Charles Jas Fox  Powys      Son   -  M  10  1841  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Mary Elizabeth   Powys      Daur  -  F   9  1842  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Constance E      Powys      Daur  -  F   8  1843  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Caroline Mary    Powys      Daur  -  F   6  1845  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Louisa           Richter    Gnss  U  F  24  1827  Governess        Rostock, Meeklenburg(?)
Hannah           Hurst      Serv  W  F  49  1802  Housekeeper      Mildenhall, Suffolk
Mary             Baskervil  Serv  U  F  29  1822  Cook             Ashwater, Devon
Lidia            Crockford  Serv  U  F  26  1825  Kitchen maid     Whitton, Berkshire
Sarah            Allison    Serv  M  F  33  1818  Housemaid        Chippenham, Wiltshire

Ref:
Archive reference  HO107
Piece number       1477
Folio              17
Page               26
Combined:          1851 ref: HO107, piece 1477, folio 17, p. 26
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His four children from the above 1841 census:

First name(s)  Last name  Sex  Age  Birth year  Birth place
Georgiana Caroline     Powys       F   5  1836  -
Leopold William Henry  Powys       M   3  1838  -
Edward Victor Robert   Powys       M   2  1839  -
Charles James Fox      Powys       M   1  1840  -

Five more children from the above 1851 census:

First name(s)  Last name  Relationship  Marital status  Sex  Age  Birth year  Occupation  Birth place
Adelaide Mary    Powys      Daur  U  F  19  1832  -                Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Edith G          Powys      Daur  -  F  16  1835  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Mary Elizabeth   Powys      Daur  -  F   9  1842  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Constance E      Powys      Daur  -  F   8  1843  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.
Caroline Mary    Powys      Daur  -  F   6  1845  Scholar at home  Middlesex, St Geo. H. S.

One son missing in 1851 and 1961, probably at boarding school:
Thomas Littleton  Powys                     1833

Nine children’s baptisms from a search with parents’ names only plus searches for the remainder with the apparent name of Lilford:
    Birth                                                     Bapt
Yr  Mon Day  Name                          Bapt Place        Date           Abode
1831 Sep  8   Adelaide Mary                 St Geo Han Sq     1831 Sep 30    Stanhope St
1833 Mar 18   Thomas Lyttleton Powys        St George Han Sq  1833 Apr 29    Stanhope St
1834 Jul  2   Edith Galfrida Powys          St Geo Han Sq     1843 Jan 23    Grosvenor Place
1835 Jan  9   Georgiana Caroline Powys      St Geo Han Sq     1836 May 10    Grosvenor Place
1837 Sep 17   Leopold William Henry Powys§  St Geo Han Sq     1837 Dec 19    Grosvenor Place
1839 Feb 11   Edward Victor Robert Powys§   St Geo Han Sq     1839 Aug  7    Grosvenor Place
1840 Apr 25   Charles James Fox Powys§      St Geo Han Sq     1840 Jul 28    Grosvenor Place
1841 Jul 29   Mary Elizabeth Frances Powys  St Geo Han Sq     1841 Sep 13    Grosvenor Place
1842 Dec  9   Constance Emma Augusta Powys  St Geo Han Sq     1843 Jan 23    Grosvenor Place

(At one stage I had thought the two lines on the register for the baptism entry of Constance Emma Powys meant that she had a twin sister Augusta.  In fact Augusta was her third name, as shown at her marriage.

§ This indicates that the baptism erroneously entered them with the surname of Lilford.

Missing from Baptisms:
Birth          Full name
1845           Caroline Mary Powys

I simply cannot find her baptism, not even in the Lilford cum Wigthorpe parish register.

Nevertheless either a birth or a census record has been found for a total of 10 children.
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His death index:

Name:                        Age at Death (in years):  
POWYS, THOMAS ATHERTON       59  
GRO Reference: 1861  M Quarter in OUNDLE  Volume 03B  Page 136
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His burial (Northants FHS):

First name(s):             Thomas Atherton
Last name:                 POWYS
Date of burial:            21 Mar 1861
Age at death:              59
Calculated year of birth:  1802
Place of burial:           Lilford cum Wigsthorpe
Dedication:                St Peter
County:                    Northamptonshire

The image of the register page, from Ancestry, adds these notes:
“died the 15th inst at Lilford Hall
“3rd Baron Lilford
“Abode: Lilford Hall
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Feb 2022, TFPL: As yet no probate found but (a) the probate site is down and (b) the next paragraph does confirm that he had an estate that sounds to have been probated.



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A case heard about his estate in 1862:

PURSUANT to a Decree tf the High Court of Cbancery, made in a cause Lord Lilford v. Powys Keck and others, the Incumbrancerson the real Estate, and the creditors of the Right Honourable Thomas Atherton Baron Lilford. late of Lilford Hall, in the county of Northampton, who died on or about the 15th day of March, 1861, are, by their Solicitors, on or before the 14th day of March, 1862, to come in and prove their debts, at the chambers of the Master of the Rolls, in the Rolls-yard, Chancery-lane, Middlesex, or in default thereof they will be peremptorily excluded from the benefit of the said Decree. Tuesday, the 18th day of March, 1862, at twelve o'clock at noon, at the said chambers, is appointed for hearing and adjudicating upon the claims.-—Dated this 15th day of February, 1862.
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From the Northants FHS booklet of Mon Inscriptions for St John the Baptist, Thorpe Achurch, pub 2015:

On a stained glass window:
“THOMA ATHERTON 3rd Baron Lilford died March 15 aged 59 years A.D. 1861”

On a brass plaque:
“THOMAS ATHEERTON 3rd Naron Lilford died March 15th A.D. 1861 aged 59 years.  This window is raised as a memorial of the undying love and grateful affection of his widow and children.  His last words - “Underneath are the everlasting arms.”  Deuteronomy Ch. 33rd. V. 27th.
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FindMyPast shows three abstracts of this marriage:

   Date          Bride               Groom                    Place         Recorded by
1. 24 May 1830   Mary Elizabeth Fox  Thomas Atherton Lilford  Kensington    W Mddx FHS

2.  ? May 1830   Mary E Fox          Thomas Atherton          Kensington    W Surrey FHS

3.  ? May 1830   Mary E (Hon) Fox    Thomas Atherton Lilford  Kensington    W Surrey FHS

I have asked W Middx FHS if they can identify which church register this information came from.

I think we can be certain that this was the couple and that a copy was made from a marriage register.  But where is the marriage register held?  London Metropolitan Archives?  I don’t think so as all theirs are on Ancestry’s site.  It sounds like Surrey’s Record Office in Woking where I have had to go for Register copies in the past.

Phillimore’s Register index thinks it could be in either the LMA or the Westminster City Archives.

The two churches in Kensington are:
  Holy Trinity, Brompton Road,     SW3   near V&A
  Holy Trinity, Knightsbridge

Other addresses are: Prince Consort Road, poss. SW7 2BA, AND Sloane Square

The Prince Consort Rd church was only built in 1901

The Holy Trinity, Brompton was build in 1826-9

Holy Trinity Sloane Street was built in 1888-90 - correct!

One of the Holy Trinity churches is SW7 1JA

The original church in Sloane Street was built in 1828-30, demolished in 1888 and eventually replaced by the 1888-90 building.  It describes itself as “Holy Trinity Sloane Square, 146 Sloane Street, London  SW1X 9BZ”.  It is part of the diocese of London.

I think I have now tracked down the old church in which they were married, as it was then the only Holy Trinity in Kensington/Knightsbridge/Chelsea.  See <https://sloanechurch.org>;.
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Phillimore’s index of Parish Registers says that the deposited registers for Holy Trinity Knightsbridge are from 1658 to 1903, that they are deposited at Westminster City Archives, that IGI does not have copies and that the Soc of Genealogists has copies up to 1739 (only).

Westminster City Archives says they have the marriage registers from 1658-1752 and 1866-1903 BUT NOT those for 1752 to 1866!  So who does heave the missing years?  I have asked them.
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Oddly, Ancestry has nothing at all for this marriage.
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Complete Peerage states clearly that they married on the 20th May 1830, so I will accept that until I can find a copy of the marriage register.
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TFPL, Feb 2022: All is now revealed, or rather quite a lot is, thanks to information from West Middlesex Family History Society.  The marriage was in fact at Holland House, by Special Licence.  The marriage was conducted by the people from St Mary’s Abbot, Kensington and so is recorded in their Marriage Register.  St Mary’s Abbot have yet to deposit their registers with a respectable Archive.  So, to get a copy of the record, I must apply to the Church.  The first step is to get on to their website.

The full record of the W. Middx website is:

Groom Surname:      Atherton Lilford
Groom Forename)s):  Thomas
Bride Surname:      Fox
Bride Forename(s):  Mary Elizabeth
Marriage date:      24 May 1830
Parish:             Kensington, St Mary Abbots
Husband Notes:      Rt Hon Lord Lilford
Wife Notes:         -
General Notes:      married at Holland House by special licence
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Feb 24 2022, TFPL, I wrote to Mrs Wilson, whom the website said was the proper person to write to for register enquiries, on 9th February 2022.  So far I have had no reply.  Their fee for a certified copy is a paltry £31, which is the standard C of E fee for such.
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3rd March 2022, TFPL: At last the report of the marriage has been made to me.  Regrettably they still cannot provide any image of the pages (why not, I wonder?).  Instead I have been given this report:

“Entry number 625, on 24th May 1830 The Right Honourable Thomas Atherton, Lord Lilford, Bachelor, was married to Mary Elizabeth Fox, Spinster. They were married by Matthew Marsh, Canon of Salisbury at Holland House by Special Licence. The witnesses were Richmond and Lansdowne.”

‘Richmond’ was Charles Lennox, tenth duke.  ‘Lansdowne’ was Henry Petty, third marquess.

It was obviously good sport to confuse the records by not giving the personal surname for Thomas Atherton.
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