Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameDame Alice Beckonshaw 
[60, Lisle art, Vol IV, Appx G, p.622], [54, Her own article], [56, Hants of 1686, pub Harleian 1991, Lisle p. 83]
[60, Lisle art, Vol IV, Appx G, p.622], [54, Her own article], [56, Hants of 1686, pub Harleian 1991, Lisle p. 83]Birthca 1613
Death2 Sep 1685, Executed at Winchester
BurialEllingham, Hants
General1st dau and co-heir. Of Moyles Court, Ellingham, Hants.
FatherSir White Beckonshaw
MotherLady Edith Bond
Notes for Dame Alice Beckonshaw
EJC relates a note by Elizabeth Lybbe, daughter of Sophia Lybbe née Tipping, about Lady Tipping:
"Lady Tipping, my grandfather's wife, was sister and co-heiress with Alice, wife of Lord de Lisle; her title I think the Government acknowledge. The severe sentence of taking off her [Alice's] head was pronounced on account of her suffering Hix, a traitor, to take shelter in her house, which her woman discovered. My aunt Lisle was much older than my grandmother, and from age and quiet conscience slept at her trial, as she did the night before she suffered when my pious aunt Tipping slept with her.
"The day of her execution was September 2, 1685. She had many daughters, but one son who left his estate to L'Isle, Esquire of Crooks Eason, Hants.
"My grandmother (Lady Tipping) was a most remarkable woman for strict piety, sedateness of temper, and good conduct; my grandfather leaving it much to her to care to manager the family. They had sixteen children, six sons only."
EJC adds:
"Dame Lisle was over seventy years of age when she was executed. Her mother was lady Beckonshaw, daughter of William Bond, of a well known Dorset family of the Isle of Purbeck."
Burke’s Commoners adds to this story that the judge was Judge Jeffries and the judgement was afterwards reversed by act of parliament (see State Trials).
________________________________________________________________
Paul Hughes of Moyles Court School in his book "Alice Resurgam" says that there were two further daughteras:
Margaret who m. Rev Robert Whitaker of Fordingbridge,
Ann, who may have m. a Harfell.
He also talks of sons John and William Lisle but does not make it clear if they were of (Lord) John Lisle's first marriage to a dau. of Sir Henry Hobart, chief justice of the common pleas, or of that to Alice Beckonshaw.
__________________________
There is some speculation on the other side of the Atlantic that she had a daughter Alice who married a John Hoare, bestowing on that couple's descendants the exquisite priviledge of royal descent via John Lisle. However the evidence for this does not tie up and has to be a fabrication, as Ned Hawley relates on s.g.m on 9th March 2005:
"I'm looking for clarification on the parents of Alice -- (Lisle?
Lyle?), wife of John Hoar(e) and residents of Scituate & Concord, MA
in the mid-late 17th Century. Alice is considered the possible
daughter of John Lord Lisle, Hampshire England, a descendant of the
royal family.
"This subject has been debated here before, so let me try to extend the
research by challenging arguments on both sides of the matter ...
"Much of the argument in favor of her being John Lord Lisle's daughter
rests on the marriage of John Hoare's brother Leonard to Bridget
Lisle, his daughter with Alice B., and the several non-contemporary
sources that claim that John Hoare married John Lisle's daughter.
Neither of these arguments is a substitute for a contemporaneous
record. Can anyone produce a stronger argument in favor of the Lisle
lineage?
"Much of the argument against her being Alice Lisle rests on the
supposed marriage date of John Lisle to Lady Alice Beaconsawe being
1636, 11-12 years before the first child of John Hoare and Alice --
making any daughter of John Lisle & Lady Alice too young to have
children at that time. The problem with this argument is threefold:
first, Bridget Lisle was born in 1632, 4+ years before the suggested
marriage date; two, 4 children of John Lisle & Lady Alice (including
young Alice) were christened by 1636; and finally, records indicate
the Lisle's had 12 children by early 1648, translating into a 12
children in 12 years if we use 1636 as the marriage year - bordering
on the impossible. All of this would indicate that John Lisle & Lady
Alice were married before 1636 and that their daughter Alice was born
no later than 1632.
"One more consideration - John Lisle was married to Elizabeth Hobart
until her early death in March 1633. I suppose that leaves open the
possibility that Alice, if she was John Lisle's daughter, was born to
Elizabeth Hobart."
____________________
"Lady Tipping, my grandfather's wife, was sister and co-heiress with Alice, wife of Lord de Lisle; her title I think the Government acknowledge. The severe sentence of taking off her [Alice's] head was pronounced on account of her suffering Hix, a traitor, to take shelter in her house, which her woman discovered. My aunt Lisle was much older than my grandmother, and from age and quiet conscience slept at her trial, as she did the night before she suffered when my pious aunt Tipping slept with her.
"The day of her execution was September 2, 1685. She had many daughters, but one son who left his estate to L'Isle, Esquire of Crooks Eason, Hants.
"My grandmother (Lady Tipping) was a most remarkable woman for strict piety, sedateness of temper, and good conduct; my grandfather leaving it much to her to care to manager the family. They had sixteen children, six sons only."
EJC adds:
"Dame Lisle was over seventy years of age when she was executed. Her mother was lady Beckonshaw, daughter of William Bond, of a well known Dorset family of the Isle of Purbeck."
Burke’s Commoners adds to this story that the judge was Judge Jeffries and the judgement was afterwards reversed by act of parliament (see State Trials).
________________________________________________________________
Paul Hughes of Moyles Court School in his book "Alice Resurgam" says that there were two further daughteras:
Margaret who m. Rev Robert Whitaker of Fordingbridge,
Ann, who may have m. a Harfell.
He also talks of sons John and William Lisle but does not make it clear if they were of (Lord) John Lisle's first marriage to a dau. of Sir Henry Hobart, chief justice of the common pleas, or of that to Alice Beckonshaw.
__________________________
There is some speculation on the other side of the Atlantic that she had a daughter Alice who married a John Hoare, bestowing on that couple's descendants the exquisite priviledge of royal descent via John Lisle. However the evidence for this does not tie up and has to be a fabrication, as Ned Hawley relates on s.g.m on 9th March 2005:
"I'm looking for clarification on the parents of Alice -- (Lisle?
Lyle?), wife of John Hoar(e) and residents of Scituate & Concord, MA
in the mid-late 17th Century. Alice is considered the possible
daughter of John Lord Lisle, Hampshire England, a descendant of the
royal family.
"This subject has been debated here before, so let me try to extend the
research by challenging arguments on both sides of the matter ...
"Much of the argument in favor of her being John Lord Lisle's daughter
rests on the marriage of John Hoare's brother Leonard to Bridget
Lisle, his daughter with Alice B., and the several non-contemporary
sources that claim that John Hoare married John Lisle's daughter.
Neither of these arguments is a substitute for a contemporaneous
record. Can anyone produce a stronger argument in favor of the Lisle
lineage?
"Much of the argument against her being Alice Lisle rests on the
supposed marriage date of John Lisle to Lady Alice Beaconsawe being
1636, 11-12 years before the first child of John Hoare and Alice --
making any daughter of John Lisle & Lady Alice too young to have
children at that time. The problem with this argument is threefold:
first, Bridget Lisle was born in 1632, 4+ years before the suggested
marriage date; two, 4 children of John Lisle & Lady Alice (including
young Alice) were christened by 1636; and finally, records indicate
the Lisle's had 12 children by early 1648, translating into a 12
children in 12 years if we use 1636 as the marriage year - bordering
on the impossible. All of this would indicate that John Lisle & Lady
Alice were married before 1636 and that their daughter Alice was born
no later than 1632.
"One more consideration - John Lisle was married to Elizabeth Hobart
until her early death in March 1633. I suppose that leaves open the
possibility that Alice, if she was John Lisle's daughter, was born to
Elizabeth Hobart."
____________________
Will notes for Dame Alice Beckonshaw
The will of Alice Lisle as transcribed in NEHGS Vol. 39 p.65 1885, as reported by Fred Chalfant on s.g.m. on 10th Mar 2005:
"ALICIA LISLE of Moyles Court in the County of Southampton, widow, 9
June, 1682, with codicil of same date, proved 11November, 1689. To the
poor of the parish of Ellingham two pounds within one year after my
decease. I have settled upon Thomas Tipping of Wheatfield in the
County of Oxford, Esq. and Christopher Warman of Milborne Weekes in the
County of Somerset, gentleman, their heirs and assigns, the reversion
and inheritance of the moiety of the manor of Moyles Court, alias
Rockford Moyles and over-Burgatt and several other manors, lands,
tenements and hereditaments in the said County of Southampton and in
the County of Dorset and elsewhere, mentioned in an indenture
tripartite, dated 19 Feb. 1678, to be conveyed to William Tipping,
Esq., for five hundred years, who hath since conveyed and assigned over
his interest, &c. to the said Thomas Tipping and Christopher Warman;
which said conveyance is in trust for the payment of certain debts in a
schedule thereunto annexed, &c. &c. The overplus (after payment of
such debts) to my worthy friends, the said William Tipping and Mrs.
Frances Tipping his sister, Richard Lloyd, citizen and linen-draper of
London, and Triphena his wife, to hold forever upon this especial
trust, &c. to discharge my funeral expenses and pay debts, &c, and to
pay unto my daughter Anne twelve hundred pounds at the age of one and
twenty years or day of marriage, to pay unto my grandaughter -------
Hore, daughter of my daughter Bridgett, now in New England, the sum of
one hundred pounds at age one and twenty or day of marriage, to pay
unto my daughter Mary an annuity or yearly of six pounds during her
natural life, but if said daughter Mary marry against their consent
said annuity shall cease, to pay to daughter Mabella Lisle an annuity
of forty pounds (under same conditions). The residue to be distributed
among my daughters' children as they (the trustees) shall think fit.
To cousin Judah Rie ten pounds within two years after my decease. To
William Carpenter, my servant, thirty pounds (in two years). In the
codicil she bequeaths to daughter Margaret, now the wife of Mr.
Whitaker, seventy pounds (in two years). Witnesses Anne Tipping,
William Withrington, John Swan and Abiah Browne.
Ent. 159"
_________________________________________________________
"ALICIA LISLE of Moyles Court in the County of Southampton, widow, 9
June, 1682, with codicil of same date, proved 11November, 1689. To the
poor of the parish of Ellingham two pounds within one year after my
decease. I have settled upon Thomas Tipping of Wheatfield in the
County of Oxford, Esq. and Christopher Warman of Milborne Weekes in the
County of Somerset, gentleman, their heirs and assigns, the reversion
and inheritance of the moiety of the manor of Moyles Court, alias
Rockford Moyles and over-Burgatt and several other manors, lands,
tenements and hereditaments in the said County of Southampton and in
the County of Dorset and elsewhere, mentioned in an indenture
tripartite, dated 19 Feb. 1678, to be conveyed to William Tipping,
Esq., for five hundred years, who hath since conveyed and assigned over
his interest, &c. to the said Thomas Tipping and Christopher Warman;
which said conveyance is in trust for the payment of certain debts in a
schedule thereunto annexed, &c. &c. The overplus (after payment of
such debts) to my worthy friends, the said William Tipping and Mrs.
Frances Tipping his sister, Richard Lloyd, citizen and linen-draper of
London, and Triphena his wife, to hold forever upon this especial
trust, &c. to discharge my funeral expenses and pay debts, &c, and to
pay unto my daughter Anne twelve hundred pounds at the age of one and
twenty years or day of marriage, to pay unto my grandaughter -------
Hore, daughter of my daughter Bridgett, now in New England, the sum of
one hundred pounds at age one and twenty or day of marriage, to pay
unto my daughter Mary an annuity or yearly of six pounds during her
natural life, but if said daughter Mary marry against their consent
said annuity shall cease, to pay to daughter Mabella Lisle an annuity
of forty pounds (under same conditions). The residue to be distributed
among my daughters' children as they (the trustees) shall think fit.
To cousin Judah Rie ten pounds within two years after my decease. To
William Carpenter, my servant, thirty pounds (in two years). In the
codicil she bequeaths to daughter Margaret, now the wife of Mr.
Whitaker, seventy pounds (in two years). Witnesses Anne Tipping,
William Withrington, John Swan and Abiah Browne.
Ent. 159"
_________________________________________________________
DNB Main notes for Dame Alice Beckonshaw
Lisle, Alice 1614?-1685
Name: Lisle, Alice
Dates: 1614?-1685
Active Date: 1654
Gender: Female
Field of Interest: Miscellaneous
Occupation: Victim of a judicial murder
Place of
Death: The market-place of Winchester
Burial: Ellingham
Spouse: John Lisle
Sources: Howell's State Trials, xi. 298-382; Luttrell's Brief Relation, i...
Contributor: S. L. [Sidney Lee]
Article
Lisle, Alice 1614?-1685, victim of a judicial murder, born about 1614, was daughter and heiress of Sir White Beckenshaw of Moyles Court, Ellingham, near Ringwood, Hampshire. The registers at Ellingham are not extant at the period of her birth, about 1614. In 1630 she became the second wife of John Lisle [q.v.]. William Lilly, the astrologer, states in his autobiography (p. 63) that Mrs. Lisle visited him in 1643 to consult him about the illness of her friend Sir Bulstrode Whitelocke. A note states that at the date of Charles I's execution she was reported to have exclaimed that ‘her heart leaped within her to see the tyrant fall;’ but she herself asserted many years later that she ‘shed more tears’ for Charles I ‘than any woman then living did’ (State Trials, xi. 360), and she claimed to have been at the time on intimate terms with the Countess of Monmouth, the Countess of Marlborough, and Edward Hyde, afterwards lord chancellor. She probably shared her husband's fortunes till his death at Lausanne in 1664. Subsequently she lived quietly at Moyles Court, which she inherited from her father, and she showed while there some sympathy with the dissenting ministers in their trials during Charles II's reign. Her husband had been a member of Cromwell's House of Lords, and she was therefore often spoken of as Lady or Lady Alice Lisle. At the time of Monmouth's rebellion in the first week of July 1685 she was in London, but a few days later returned to Moyles Court. On 20 July she received a message from John Hickes [q.v.], the dissenting minister, asking her to shelter him. Hickes had taken part in Monmouth's behalf at the battle of Sedgemoor (6 July) and was flying from justice. But, according to her own account, Mrs. Lisle merely knew him as a prominent dissenting minister, and imagined that a warrant was out against him for illegal preaching or for some offence committed in his ministerial capacity. She readily consented to receive him, and he arrived at ten o'clock at night, a few days later, accompanied by the messenger Dunne, and by one Richard Nelthorp [q.v.], another of Monmouth's supporters, of whom Mrs. Lisle knew nothing. Their arrival was at once disclosed by a spying villager to Colonel Penruddock, who arrived next day (26 July) with a troop of soldiers, and arrested Mrs. Lisle and her guests. Mrs. Lisle gave very confused answers to the colonel, whose father, John Penruddock [q.v.], a well-known royalist, had been sentenced to death by her husband. On 27 Aug. 1685 she was tried by special commission before Judge Jeffreys at Winchester, on the capital charge of harbouring Hickes, a traitor. No evidence respecting Hickes's offences was admitted, and in spite of the brutal browbeating by the judge of the chief witness, Dunne, no proof was adduced either that Mrs. Lisle had any ground to suspect Hickes of disloyalty or that she had displayed any sympathy with Monmouth's insurrection. She made a moderate speech in her own defence. The jury declared themselves reluctant to convict her, but Jeffreys overruled their scruples, and she was ultimately found guilty, and on the morning of the next day (28 Aug.) was sentenced to be burnt alive the same afternoon. Pressure was, however, applied to the judge, and a respite till 2 Sept. was ordered. Lady Lisle petitioned James II (31 Aug.) to grant her a further reprieve of four days, and to order the substitution of beheading for burning. The first request was refused; the latter was granted. Mrs. Lisle was accordingly beheaded in the market-place of Winchester on 2 Sept., and her body was given up to her friends for burial at Ellingham. On the scaffold she gave a paper to the sheriffs denying her guilt, and it was printed, with the ‘Last Words of Colonel Rumbold,’ 1685, and in ‘The Dying Speeches / of several Persons,’ 1689. The first pamphlet was also published in Dutch. The attainder was reversed by a private act of parliament in 1689 at the request of Mrs. Lisle's two married daughters, Triphena Lloyd and Bridget Usher, on the ground that ‘the verdict was injuriously extorted and procured by the menaces and violences and other illegal practices’ of Jeffreys. The daughter Triphena Lloyd married, at a later date, a second husband named Grove, and her daughter became the wife of Lord James Russell, fifth son of William Russell, first duke of Bedford. Bridget Lisle also married twice; her first husband being Leonard Hoar [q.v.], president of Harvard University, and her second Hezekiah Usher of Boston, Massachusetts; a daughter, Bridget Hoar, married the Rev. Thomas Cotton (Notes and Queries, 2nd ser. xii. 99, 3rd ser. iv. 159).
Sources
Howell's State Trials, xi. 298-382; Luttrell's Brief Relation, i. 357; Macaulay's Hist. vi. 302-4; C. Bruce's Book of Noble English-women (1875), pp. 122-46.
Contributor: S. L.
published 1892
Name: Lisle, Alice
Dates: 1614?-1685
Active Date: 1654
Gender: Female
Field of Interest: Miscellaneous
Occupation: Victim of a judicial murder
Place of
Death: The market-place of Winchester
Burial: Ellingham
Spouse: John Lisle
Sources: Howell's State Trials, xi. 298-382; Luttrell's Brief Relation, i...
Contributor: S. L. [Sidney Lee]
Article
Lisle, Alice 1614?-1685, victim of a judicial murder, born about 1614, was daughter and heiress of Sir White Beckenshaw of Moyles Court, Ellingham, near Ringwood, Hampshire. The registers at Ellingham are not extant at the period of her birth, about 1614. In 1630 she became the second wife of John Lisle [q.v.]. William Lilly, the astrologer, states in his autobiography (p. 63) that Mrs. Lisle visited him in 1643 to consult him about the illness of her friend Sir Bulstrode Whitelocke. A note states that at the date of Charles I's execution she was reported to have exclaimed that ‘her heart leaped within her to see the tyrant fall;’ but she herself asserted many years later that she ‘shed more tears’ for Charles I ‘than any woman then living did’ (State Trials, xi. 360), and she claimed to have been at the time on intimate terms with the Countess of Monmouth, the Countess of Marlborough, and Edward Hyde, afterwards lord chancellor. She probably shared her husband's fortunes till his death at Lausanne in 1664. Subsequently she lived quietly at Moyles Court, which she inherited from her father, and she showed while there some sympathy with the dissenting ministers in their trials during Charles II's reign. Her husband had been a member of Cromwell's House of Lords, and she was therefore often spoken of as Lady or Lady Alice Lisle. At the time of Monmouth's rebellion in the first week of July 1685 she was in London, but a few days later returned to Moyles Court. On 20 July she received a message from John Hickes [q.v.], the dissenting minister, asking her to shelter him. Hickes had taken part in Monmouth's behalf at the battle of Sedgemoor (6 July) and was flying from justice. But, according to her own account, Mrs. Lisle merely knew him as a prominent dissenting minister, and imagined that a warrant was out against him for illegal preaching or for some offence committed in his ministerial capacity. She readily consented to receive him, and he arrived at ten o'clock at night, a few days later, accompanied by the messenger Dunne, and by one Richard Nelthorp [q.v.], another of Monmouth's supporters, of whom Mrs. Lisle knew nothing. Their arrival was at once disclosed by a spying villager to Colonel Penruddock, who arrived next day (26 July) with a troop of soldiers, and arrested Mrs. Lisle and her guests. Mrs. Lisle gave very confused answers to the colonel, whose father, John Penruddock [q.v.], a well-known royalist, had been sentenced to death by her husband. On 27 Aug. 1685 she was tried by special commission before Judge Jeffreys at Winchester, on the capital charge of harbouring Hickes, a traitor. No evidence respecting Hickes's offences was admitted, and in spite of the brutal browbeating by the judge of the chief witness, Dunne, no proof was adduced either that Mrs. Lisle had any ground to suspect Hickes of disloyalty or that she had displayed any sympathy with Monmouth's insurrection. She made a moderate speech in her own defence. The jury declared themselves reluctant to convict her, but Jeffreys overruled their scruples, and she was ultimately found guilty, and on the morning of the next day (28 Aug.) was sentenced to be burnt alive the same afternoon. Pressure was, however, applied to the judge, and a respite till 2 Sept. was ordered. Lady Lisle petitioned James II (31 Aug.) to grant her a further reprieve of four days, and to order the substitution of beheading for burning. The first request was refused; the latter was granted. Mrs. Lisle was accordingly beheaded in the market-place of Winchester on 2 Sept., and her body was given up to her friends for burial at Ellingham. On the scaffold she gave a paper to the sheriffs denying her guilt, and it was printed, with the ‘Last Words of Colonel Rumbold,’ 1685, and in ‘The Dying Speeches / of several Persons,’ 1689. The first pamphlet was also published in Dutch. The attainder was reversed by a private act of parliament in 1689 at the request of Mrs. Lisle's two married daughters, Triphena Lloyd and Bridget Usher, on the ground that ‘the verdict was injuriously extorted and procured by the menaces and violences and other illegal practices’ of Jeffreys. The daughter Triphena Lloyd married, at a later date, a second husband named Grove, and her daughter became the wife of Lord James Russell, fifth son of William Russell, first duke of Bedford. Bridget Lisle also married twice; her first husband being Leonard Hoar [q.v.], president of Harvard University, and her second Hezekiah Usher of Boston, Massachusetts; a daughter, Bridget Hoar, married the Rev. Thomas Cotton (Notes and Queries, 2nd ser. xii. 99, 3rd ser. iv. 159).
Sources
Howell's State Trials, xi. 298-382; Luttrell's Brief Relation, i. 357; Macaulay's Hist. vi. 302-4; C. Bruce's Book of Noble English-women (1875), pp. 122-46.
Contributor: S. L.
published 1892