Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameAmicia ‘Itta’ de Gael 
[119, Amicia de Gael, p. 470], [60, Leicester article, Vol VII, pp. 529-530 incl 530 notes (a) and (b)], [60, Huntingdon article, Vol VI, p. 643], [60, Norfolk article, vol IX, p. 574, note (n)]
[119, Amicia de Gael, p. 470], [60, Leicester article, Vol VII, pp. 529-530 incl 530 notes (a) and (b)], [60, Huntingdon article, Vol VI, p. 643], [60, Norfolk article, vol IX, p. 574, note (n)]Deathaft 1168
GeneralHeir to Briteuil but not heir of her father. Became nun after Robt's death.
FatherRalph de Gael Seigneur of Gael (-1142)
Spouses
1Robert de Bellomont Earl of Leicester [60, Lovel of Titchmarsh, Vol VIII, p. 208 et seq], [60, Leicester article, Vol VII, pp. 527-530], [60, Essex art, Vol V, pp. 127-9], [60, Huntingdon art, Vol VI, p. 643], [60, Paynel article, Vol X, p. 320], [119, Robert II Comes de Leicestrie, pp. 233-4]
[60, Lovel of Titchmarsh, Vol VIII, p. 208 et seq], [60, Leicester article, Vol VII, pp. 527-530], [60, Essex art, Vol V, pp. 127-9], [60, Huntingdon art, Vol VI, p. 643], [60, Paynel article, Vol X, p. 320], [119, Robert II Comes de Leicestrie, pp. 233-4]FatherRobert de Bellomont Earl of Leicester (ca1046-1118)
MotherIsabel de Vermandois (-<1138)
Marriageaft Nov 1120 [60, Leicester art, Vol VII, p.521 seq]
Notes for Amicia ‘Itta’ de Gael
CofA: Daughter and heir of Ralph Gwadyr, earl of East Angles, named by CofA as Itta. Where did the CofA get the De Gwadyrs from??? Where did they get her as heir from???
Good authorities (CP in several places, particularly VII, 530) have the wife of this Robert de Bellomont to be Amice de Gail (c.1108 in Norfolk-aft.1168):
Answer is that she was the granddaughter of Ralph, earl of Norfolk, by his son Ralph de Gael. - CP VII, 530, where this is discussed in Note (a) and shows that, again, C of A had not put any dates on paper...
CP VII, 530 note (b) is not wholly clear about Amicia’s status as heir or not. It says that Ralph de Gael's Breteuil estates initially descended to William, eldest son of William FitzOsbern, earl of Hereford. On the death of William junior, the estates went to his illegitimate son Eustace but in 1119, after some rebellion by Eustace, the bulk were taken and given to Ralph, Amicia’s father. The whole of Breteuil then ended up with Amicia’s husband, Robert.
Confirming this, K-R in DD 470 says "Wife of Robert, earl of Leicester, to whom she took the honour of Breteuil inherited from her mother". The trouble here is that the property may have been held by Ralph de Gael in right of his (unknown) wife and this is why it went to Robert earl of Leicester, and not because his father in law had a permanent right over it.
many generations
Finally, CP IX, 574, note (n) says that the Breton estates descended along the line of the male descendants of Amicia’s father Ralph de Gael. Such a fact makes it categorical that Amicia was no genetic heir to her father and that, accordingly, the Gael, or ‘Gwader’, arms cannot be quartered by her descendants.
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Good authorities (CP in several places, particularly VII, 530) have the wife of this Robert de Bellomont to be Amice de Gail (c.1108 in Norfolk-aft.1168):
Answer is that she was the granddaughter of Ralph, earl of Norfolk, by his son Ralph de Gael. - CP VII, 530, where this is discussed in Note (a) and shows that, again, C of A had not put any dates on paper...
CP VII, 530 note (b) is not wholly clear about Amicia’s status as heir or not. It says that Ralph de Gael's Breteuil estates initially descended to William, eldest son of William FitzOsbern, earl of Hereford. On the death of William junior, the estates went to his illegitimate son Eustace but in 1119, after some rebellion by Eustace, the bulk were taken and given to Ralph, Amicia’s father. The whole of Breteuil then ended up with Amicia’s husband, Robert.
Confirming this, K-R in DD 470 says "Wife of Robert, earl of Leicester, to whom she took the honour of Breteuil inherited from her mother". The trouble here is that the property may have been held by Ralph de Gael in right of his (unknown) wife and this is why it went to Robert earl of Leicester, and not because his father in law had a permanent right over it.
many generations
Finally, CP IX, 574, note (n) says that the Breton estates descended along the line of the male descendants of Amicia’s father Ralph de Gael. Such a fact makes it categorical that Amicia was no genetic heir to her father and that, accordingly, the Gael, or ‘Gwader’, arms cannot be quartered by her descendants.
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