Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Birthca 1440, Raby Castle, Staindrop, Co. Durham
Death20 Sep 1492, Sussex
BurialLewes Priory, Sussex
General4th baron (CP). 2nd but 1st surviving son. Never owned Abergavenny.
Notes for George Neville Lord Abergavenny

Tim Powys-Lybbe <tim@southfrm.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Can anyone help fill in the apparent gap or correct the error:
>I'm trying to trace the ancestry of Jane Nevill (c.1485-1438) (wife of Henry
>Pole, Ld Montagu).
>She is reliably (I believe) quoted as the daughter of George Nevill (d.1492)
>and Margaret Fenne; George is said to be the 4th earl and the son of his
>father Edward Nevill (d.1476) and Elizabeth de Beauchamp; Edward is said to
>be the first earl.  Edward was a son of Ralph Nevill (1363-1425) and Joan de
>Beaufort (1379-1440).
>Who were the 2nd and 3rd earls?  Or what?

First, these folks were not Earls of Abergavenny, they were Barons of
Abergavenny.  The first Earl of Abergavenny was George Neville, a
great(7)-grandson of George (d. 1492).  He was created Earl in 1784.

One of the problems with numbering the Barons of Abergavenny (it's also
true for other titles as well, but Abergavenny is one of the better
examples) is that peerage law in the 14th and 15th centuries bears little
relation to current peerage law.  For example, a writ of summons, at that
time, had no more significance than a jury summons nowadays, but peerage
law for at least the past 400 years says that a writ of summons creates a
hereditary peerage.  Elizabeth Beauchamp's grandfather William Beauchamp
received writs of summons starting in 1392, thus he is now considered to be
the first Baron of Abergavenny.  After he died (1411), his son Richard was
also summoned, but (according to current peerage law) this did not create a
new peerage as he was summoned in his father's barony.  Richard was created
Earl of Worcester and died in 1422, leaving Elizabeth as his only child.
She is now considered to have inherited the peerage (a fact of which she
and her contemporaries were completely unaware), and is thus now considered
to have been the 3rd holder of the 1392 title.  After her death in 1448,
her surviving husband, Edward Neville, was also summoned, in 1450.  By some
legerdemain this is not considered a *new* peerage, but that he held the
Abergavenny peerage "jure uxoris" (in the right of his wife).  After his
death in 1476, George was summoned, starting in 1482.  For some reason
George is now considered to have been the fourth holder of the 1392 title.
George married Margaret Fenne, and Jane was their daughter.

All of this is relatively straightforward compared to the 1604 and 1695
summons in the Abergavenny barony, but those are outside the time period
you've inquiring about (consider yourself lucky).  For further information
on the Abergavenny title, see the second edition of Cokayne's *Complete
Peerage*, vol. I, pp. 19-44.

William Addams Reitwiesner

"Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc."
Will notes for George Neville Lord Abergavenny
In his will, dated July 1 1491, he lists:
George his son and heir,
John his son,
William his son,
Edward his son,
Thomas his son,
Richard his son.,
Last Modified 3 Jan 2007Created 14 May 2022 by Tim Powys-Lybbe
Re-created by Tim Powys-Lybbe on 14 May 20220