Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
Powys-Lybbe Forbears - Person Sheet
NameJohn Powys (of Myfod) 
FatherMadoc
Notes for John Powys (of Myfod)
Martin P-L writes:
John is called "of Meifod" in many genealogies, though the only evidence for this (so far as I know) is the visitation of 1666. In the Local Studies Library at Shrewsbury there is a reference (undated, but probably pre-1475) to Iohannes Powes of Cockshutt; and at least one of his children lived there. All the rest of those named above lived there or nearby, except our ancestors (in capitals). Cockshutt is
about 25 miles N.E. of Meifod. I know no evidence for Miss Wycherley, nor of John's two elder brothers, Owen and David, assigned him by Reginald Cecil.
John is called "of Meifod" in many genealogies, though the only evidence for this (so far as I know) is the visitation of 1666. In the Local Studies Library at Shrewsbury there is a reference (undated, but probably pre-1475) to Iohannes Powes of Cockshutt; and at least one of his children lived there. All the rest of those named above lived there or nearby, except our ancestors (in capitals). Cockshutt is
about 25 miles N.E. of Meifod. I know no evidence for Miss Wycherley, nor of John's two elder brothers, Owen and David, assigned him by Reginald Cecil.
Mon Inscripts notes for John Powys (of Myfod)
POWYS
Etymology
There are various possibilities:-
1. = Low Country, from Welsh pow=country (cp. Latin pagus, Fr. pays) + is=lower.
2. = District, from Latin pagus, through poghis and pouis.
3. = Place of Rest, from Welsh po=rest (cp. pause) + gwys=habitation.
4. = Son of Hawys, from ap=son of, cp. Powell from ap Howel. (least likely derivation)
5. = Bovium, a Roman town in the area. Welsh often changes b to p.
6. = Lordship on the Wye, from po=lordship + Wis=Wye.
Spelling
Add your own variants to the following:-
Powys, Powis and Powes (the three most common)
Povisia and Poyuis (both Latin)
Powice, Powies, Powess (all from Wellington, Salop 1685-1850)
Powyes, Powies (Ludlow)
Powiss (Wapping 1767), Powesse (Rotherhithe 1650)
Pronunciation
We have all been brought up with the -oa- pronunciation of Powys, and this was endorsed by the Little Oxford Dictionary in its list of surnames. The Welsh county, however, is pronounced -ow-, and in consequence we are fighting a losing battle. I fancy that English Powells have the same problem defending the pronunciation Pole.
Sources for the Welsh history. (All dates are approximate.)
100 Tacitus's life of his father in law, Agricola, general in Britain.
550 Gildas, British historian.
450-1400 Bards' tales, handed down orally until they were collected in The White Book of Rhydderch in 1300, and, in 1400, the Red Book of Hergyst. (The Chronicle of Princes is an English translation of these by Thomas Jones.)
830 Prince Eliseg's Pillar, inscribed by his grandson.
830 Nennius, British historian.
850-1150 Anglo-Saxon Chronicle
1000 Pedigree of Owain ap Hywel, Prince of Powys (Harleian MS 3859)
1150 a) Geoffrey of Monmouth. b) Eyton's "Shropshire" and "Itineraries".
1170 Owen's Horn, a bardic tale by Prince Owen (see the Myvyrian Archaiology of Wales).
1200 a) The Itineraries of Giraldus Cambrensis. b) Rotuli (collections of state papers/royal edicts).
Secondary sources:
a) pre Rhodri Mawr: Robert Owen, ontgomery Collections, vol. 29.
b) post Rhodri Mawr: Sir John E. Lloyd, History of Wales.
c) Stenton, Anglo Saxon England.
THE WELSH HISTORY
In Celtic times Britain was divided, not geographically, but by tribes. Our remote ancestors were the Ordovices, who were finally subdued by the Roman Agricola in 70 A.D. In about 400, when the Romans abandoned Britain, new rulers sprang up. If they were successful enough to found dynasties, they might justifably be called kings or princes. In the next century, when Gildas was writing, there were six such princedoms in Wales, one of them being Powys, the first time it was mentioned.
The size of Powys was the area of its rulers' current influence. At its largest it extendeded over Salop and much of Cheshire; at its smallest it stretched from the upper reaches of the Severn in the South (near Llanidloes) to the Dee in the North (near Llangollen). A sixth century bard called it Powys, Paradys Cymry (paradise of Wales); but, as the most easterly of the Welsh princedoms, it suffered most from the Angles and Normans. After Offa's dyke cut it off from its lush lowlands, it became known for its poverty. However, it remained (with Gwynedd and Deheubarth) one of the three major princedoms, and gives its name still to a third of Wales.
Etymology
There are various possibilities:-
1. = Low Country, from Welsh pow=country (cp. Latin pagus, Fr. pays) + is=lower.
2. = District, from Latin pagus, through poghis and pouis.
3. = Place of Rest, from Welsh po=rest (cp. pause) + gwys=habitation.
4. = Son of Hawys, from ap=son of, cp. Powell from ap Howel. (least likely derivation)
5. = Bovium, a Roman town in the area. Welsh often changes b to p.
6. = Lordship on the Wye, from po=lordship + Wis=Wye.
Spelling
Add your own variants to the following:-
Powys, Powis and Powes (the three most common)
Povisia and Poyuis (both Latin)
Powice, Powies, Powess (all from Wellington, Salop 1685-1850)
Powyes, Powies (Ludlow)
Powiss (Wapping 1767), Powesse (Rotherhithe 1650)
Pronunciation
We have all been brought up with the -oa- pronunciation of Powys, and this was endorsed by the Little Oxford Dictionary in its list of surnames. The Welsh county, however, is pronounced -ow-, and in consequence we are fighting a losing battle. I fancy that English Powells have the same problem defending the pronunciation Pole.
Sources for the Welsh history. (All dates are approximate.)
100 Tacitus's life of his father in law, Agricola, general in Britain.
550 Gildas, British historian.
450-1400 Bards' tales, handed down orally until they were collected in The White Book of Rhydderch in 1300, and, in 1400, the Red Book of Hergyst. (The Chronicle of Princes is an English translation of these by Thomas Jones.)
830 Prince Eliseg's Pillar, inscribed by his grandson.
830 Nennius, British historian.
850-1150 Anglo-Saxon Chronicle
1000 Pedigree of Owain ap Hywel, Prince of Powys (Harleian MS 3859)
1150 a) Geoffrey of Monmouth. b) Eyton's "Shropshire" and "Itineraries".
1170 Owen's Horn, a bardic tale by Prince Owen (see the Myvyrian Archaiology of Wales).
1200 a) The Itineraries of Giraldus Cambrensis. b) Rotuli (collections of state papers/royal edicts).
Secondary sources:
a) pre Rhodri Mawr: Robert Owen, ontgomery Collections, vol. 29.
b) post Rhodri Mawr: Sir John E. Lloyd, History of Wales.
c) Stenton, Anglo Saxon England.
THE WELSH HISTORY
In Celtic times Britain was divided, not geographically, but by tribes. Our remote ancestors were the Ordovices, who were finally subdued by the Roman Agricola in 70 A.D. In about 400, when the Romans abandoned Britain, new rulers sprang up. If they were successful enough to found dynasties, they might justifably be called kings or princes. In the next century, when Gildas was writing, there were six such princedoms in Wales, one of them being Powys, the first time it was mentioned.
The size of Powys was the area of its rulers' current influence. At its largest it extendeded over Salop and much of Cheshire; at its smallest it stretched from the upper reaches of the Severn in the South (near Llanidloes) to the Dee in the North (near Llangollen). A sixth century bard called it Powys, Paradys Cymry (paradise of Wales); but, as the most easterly of the Welsh princedoms, it suffered most from the Angles and Normans. After Offa's dyke cut it off from its lush lowlands, it became known for its poverty. However, it remained (with Gwynedd and Deheubarth) one of the three major princedoms, and gives its name still to a third of Wales.